PermalinkSubmitted by organeyezerrr on July 26, 2012 - 7:09pm
Yup, total rock star! As a fan, I can't tell you how many conversations I have had about this same subject. I hope everyone listens to "Juke's last word".
As we all know, roller derby (like every other sport has) is growing and expanding, changing and evolving. This is part of the process but I hope it doesn't stick around!
PermalinkSubmitted by N8 on July 26, 2012 - 8:07pm
I'd be happy if teams just learned that it's not always the right play. I watched teams at Dust Devil doing it when they had a 4-2 pack advantage and a power jam. At that point, if you can't immediately get your jammer out by hitting, then you don't deserve an invitation to Champs, and probably not even Regionals.
For a long term solution, this is the only good one I've seen:
PermalinkSubmitted by Abs of Flab on July 27, 2012 - 7:19am
... cause' those of us that skate alternative rule sets know the fun and excitement of jammers doing stuff, blockers doing stuff, fans cheering out of excitement, and playing fuck-you-get-past-me roller derby every jam of every game we play.
PermalinkSubmitted by Hyper Lynx on July 27, 2012 - 5:02pm
I definitely know how hard it is to not just go up and hit someone when this is happening. It's even more frustrating when you're on the wrong side of the powerplay (I've gotten many many trips to the box for not disengaging quick enough). However, I don't think there's a good solution for it yet.
Let's breakdown the current options suggested/out there:
1. No scoring during no pack: seems like it would just lead to other creative ways to break the pack to one's advantage and would be an even harder game to keep score at. She lapped the pack but there was no pack when she passed 2 people etc.
2. Letting the jammer be part of the pack within the engagement zone: when faced with a good team I can easily see a jammer never leaving the pack/never scoring even if she's on a powerplay. Would that be better? Maybe I'm just sympathizing with the jammer here, but when doing drills it's relatively easy to keep containing the jammer lap after lap especially when it's 4 v 1. Seems like it may lead to even more lopsided scoring as we would be able to race lap after lap and prevent the jammer from scoring. Right now if the jammer goes back to split the pack, the team in the back has to skate forward while the ones in the front just has to stop. So there's no guarantee they can't just start running again once the pack is established (it only takes one player to get close/bridge).
3. Alternate rules (made): I think you guys have a no pack rule as well? The difference is that if your jammer gets stuck you can send your pivot to score instead w/o needing a star pass? Harder to block 2 vs 1. So you're basically allowing both sides to score almost every time. Personally I like requiring a star pass if you want to make the pivot the jammer. Letting them just go make it almost too easy. I'm sure it makes for closer scores however.
Since renegade supposedly has no rules I'm not sure what they do. In a no rules derby situation, I'd probably tackle and put the jammer in a chokehold while tripping the rest of the pack >:D
PermalinkSubmitted by TheInvisibleNSO on July 27, 2012 - 5:29pm
as impassioned as Juke Boxx is, the rules allow for no pack and stalled pack strategies...I will say I think teams use it as a crutch for various reasons, be it they might not have the strongest skaters on the track or have a player advantage due to penalties
to expand on my first point, using those strategies is going to help win games, but will not help develop skills a skater needs, as a jammer or blocker...and what is more important? winning or some perceived sense of what is "right" and "wrong" derby?
PermalinkSubmitted by joanierollmoan on July 29, 2012 - 12:09am
Sadly as much as I love and respect the WFTDA, since they won't vote or change the rules to fix this issue, maybe we the skaters should institute our own d-bag clause. It you play this way we post it on FB & call you a dick all week.
Comments
Hey Juke Boxx,
Will you marry me? Because I think I'm in love with you.
<3
<3
<3
<3, too.
Yea Juke! Yea!
Yup, total rock star! As a fan, I can't tell you how many conversations I have had about this same subject. I hope everyone listens to "Juke's last word".
As we all know, roller derby (like every other sport has) is growing and expanding, changing and evolving. This is part of the process but I hope it doesn't stick around!
Much love from the hometown!
Organ Eyez Errr
One more thing
HELL YEAH the bout between MNRG & WCR was the best bout I have ever seen. Hands down. SO much love for those ladies!
Amazing, let's do it again!
Compromise
I'd be happy if teams just learned that it's not always the right play. I watched teams at Dust Devil doing it when they had a 4-2 pack advantage and a power jam. At that point, if you can't immediately get your jammer out by hitting, then you don't deserve an invitation to Champs, and probably not even Regionals.
For a long term solution, this is the only good one I've seen:
http://bankedtracknews.com/index.php/features/109-qtheyre-all-just-stand...
I believe in Juke Boxx
I believe in Juke Boxx
You guys have my sympathy...
... cause' those of us that skate alternative rule sets know the fun and excitement of jammers doing stuff, blockers doing stuff, fans cheering out of excitement, and playing fuck-you-get-past-me roller derby every jam of every game we play.
Suggestions to fix it?
I definitely know how hard it is to not just go up and hit someone when this is happening. It's even more frustrating when you're on the wrong side of the powerplay (I've gotten many many trips to the box for not disengaging quick enough). However, I don't think there's a good solution for it yet.
Let's breakdown the current options suggested/out there:
1. No scoring during no pack: seems like it would just lead to other creative ways to break the pack to one's advantage and would be an even harder game to keep score at. She lapped the pack but there was no pack when she passed 2 people etc.
2. Letting the jammer be part of the pack within the engagement zone: when faced with a good team I can easily see a jammer never leaving the pack/never scoring even if she's on a powerplay. Would that be better? Maybe I'm just sympathizing with the jammer here, but when doing drills it's relatively easy to keep containing the jammer lap after lap especially when it's 4 v 1. Seems like it may lead to even more lopsided scoring as we would be able to race lap after lap and prevent the jammer from scoring. Right now if the jammer goes back to split the pack, the team in the back has to skate forward while the ones in the front just has to stop. So there's no guarantee they can't just start running again once the pack is established (it only takes one player to get close/bridge).
3. Alternate rules (made): I think you guys have a no pack rule as well? The difference is that if your jammer gets stuck you can send your pivot to score instead w/o needing a star pass? Harder to block 2 vs 1. So you're basically allowing both sides to score almost every time. Personally I like requiring a star pass if you want to make the pivot the jammer. Letting them just go make it almost too easy. I'm sure it makes for closer scores however.
Since renegade supposedly has no rules I'm not sure what they do. In a no rules derby situation, I'd probably tackle and put the jammer in a chokehold while tripping the rest of the pack >:D
Anything other options out there I'm missing?
as impassioned as Juke Boxx
as impassioned as Juke Boxx is, the rules allow for no pack and stalled pack strategies...I will say I think teams use it as a crutch for various reasons, be it they might not have the strongest skaters on the track or have a player advantage due to penalties
to expand on my first point, using those strategies is going to help win games, but will not help develop skills a skater needs, as a jammer or blocker...and what is more important? winning or some perceived sense of what is "right" and "wrong" derby?
F Yeah
Sadly as much as I love and respect the WFTDA, since they won't vote or change the rules to fix this issue, maybe we the skaters should institute our own d-bag clause. It you play this way we post it on FB & call you a dick all week.