USARS Rule Set Draft In Testing Phase - Thoughts?

by DerbyLife September 30, 2011 - 12:50pm

In the last week USARS released a draft flat-track roller derby rule set, and announced the names of leagues participating in the testing phase. The rule set is a quick read at 24 pages including appendices, and if you're already familiar with the WFTDA rule set, the read goes even quicker.

What say you, Derby Nation?

Are USARS geniuses for capitalizing on the many flat-track leagues who will never see a WFTDA top ten ranking, who may be looking for meaningful tournament play? Is their gender and game style (USARS includes Old School Rules games) inclusiveness a winner? With all that inclusion, why was banked track derby (arguably more popular than Old School Rules) ignored?

Are 4 periods and the breaks in between a way for lesser athletes to compete? Will this stunt the endurance of a generation of derby skaters? Or is it just a throwback to the flat-track derby of 2001-2006, and a way to be different?

Will WFTDA referees certify to ref USARS competitions? Will WFTDA skaters or teams compete under both rule sets, in a vague hope of being ready should USOC only ever recognize USARS?

Is this big picture thinking ahead of the game, or the wishful thinking of a group that wants control of a sport they didn't build? We want to know what YOU think, Derby Nation, and we want to hear your questions, too. Let your voice be heard, below, in the comments of this Open Thread!

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Comments

Submitted by Busta Armov on September 30, 2011 - 2:03pm

Looks to me like the OSDA or MADE lobbied USARs. If I were the WFTDA, I'd file a lawsuit against them.

How coincidental can it be that the old schoolers have advocated pivots that get to leave the pack without a star pass as a jammer as soon as the other team's jammer gets lead? It COMPLETELY NEGATES PACK STRATEGY. Never mind the quarters giving uncompetitive teams some advantage: it doesn't work that way in modern banked track.

The WFTDA game is the most standardized rule set in the history of roller derby. Played by 100 times the number of people who ever played under classic roller derby rules in its entire history. What USARS is doing is a slap in the face for everyone who has built modern roller derby, including modern banked track.

Submitted by HelloLauren on October 3, 2011 - 6:16pm

A lawsuit, really?? And actually pivot breaks add to pack strategy. You must now guard the front as well as the back... forcing skaters to move forward and strive for control of the front. And the time frame between quarters is so minuscule it is equivalent or less than ref time outs or the amount of time some teams spend standing still. And I don't know why WFTDA would file a lawsuit, there is plenty in there that is taken from that ruleset as well as WORD. I don't think USARS was trying to appeal to other organizations, I think they were addressing what WFTDA skaters have expressed themselves as being a problem in the rules.

Submitted by miamoe2 on October 3, 2011 - 11:15pm

1) MADE has zero old schoolers in it...it is mostly former WFTDA skaters.
2) MADE has NO TIES with USARS. We don't have USARS charters, use USARS insurance, or speak to anyone at USARS.
3) Completely negates pack strategy? Says who? Have you ever even seen a MADE game? We have loads of pack strategy.
4) What are you even talking about with giving the uncompetitive teams an advantage? We play 4 quarters, cause the game is fast, and now you need to have 2 Jammers for every Jam. This nonstop action is exhausting.

Submitted by Billy Rae Siren on October 4, 2011 - 11:48am

Are M.A.D.E. and OSDA really the only 2 associations that allow pivot take offs?

NO.

The American Roller Derby League practices the pivot take off, the National Roller Derby Association does also, and let's not forget the original game of roller derby was played this way too.

That's 4 out of maybe 10 associations in the US currently skating this way, the way the game was originally played, and you are acting surprised like this is something new? You are accusing M.A.D.E. and OSDA, 2 relatively new associations, of having that much pull with USARS? That's flattering really, thank you, but no. Maybe USARS just didn't want to go the direction of WFTDA because of all of the controversy and arguing happening recently revolving around their rules. You can't watch a game on DNN without announcers talking about fan reaction to "slow play" and "no play" derby.

Roller derby was around before WFTDA. Get over it.

Submitted by Rogzilla on October 18, 2011 - 1:46pm

http://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=288787761150402&id=7524...

Anyone want to try and get clarification from OSDA?

Submitted by El Gallo R0J0 on September 30, 2011 - 5:01pm

It could be argued that WFTDA started derby without USARS consent, it being the umbrella to all roller sports. But this isn't my point of contention.

As a "renegade" referee, having had the opportunity to ref sanctioned and non WFTDA bouts, as well as Banked track (WORD) . In my opinion, leagues will go with what governing body/ruleset they find the easiest to legitimately play in. Some WFTDA leagues don't want to give up market share with another league just across town. Rightfully so, non-profit business is still in business and thus needs to stay afloat. Therefor the easiest thing to do is deny apprenticeship. Where else can this "renegade" league do? Learn Old School, switch to Banked (or play flat track with banked rules) or play WFTDA rules, stay renegade and network with other WFTDA leagues until they find an out of town league that will take them seriously enough to apprentice.

As far as this ruleset goes, I think USARS is hedging its bets so that their version of Roller Derby is more tasteful pill to swallow for the Olympic Committee. By name alone WFTDA makes it a women's only sport.

In the end do we play and officiate to one day see this game played every 4 years for an olympic gold medal? or do we do this for Derby <3 ? I personally do it for the latter. If one day this becomes an olympic sport great! However for now I'm happy with yearly championship tourneys, traveling to new venues and making good friends. USARS Derby Leagues best of luck in y'alls endeavors, If ever there is a League near me that uses this ruleset and needs a ref and I am available I'll gladly learn and officiate. Otherwise lets get back to some South Central Regional Playoffs!

Submitted by Nerdman on September 30, 2011 - 9:04pm

WFTDA is not an easy nut to crack. USARS provides accessibility and transparency not common with WFTDA. Try sending a email to both organizations and see who replies first, or in some cases at all. I think the modern sport of roller derby may have finally awaken the sleeping giant that is USARS. With over 500 womens roller derby leagues being a member of USARS that is a lot of women on the outside looking in Now that USARS has decided to put more of an investment in our sport, and its growth. What will WFTDA do?

Submitted by michichan on October 1, 2011 - 1:29pm

The problem is that WFTDA has taken the sport so far from the original game and I feel that the USARS folks recognize it. I just recently posted a video that I shot of Tucson vs. Texas from 2008 and when you look at that game and the recent Big 5 games, you will notice a night and day difference.

In order for this game to fare well in international competition and eventually for television, the games must be close and more evenly matched.

One of problems that WFTDA has right now is the power jam. The power jam is one of the reasons this game has been getting out of control. (not the only reason though) Even in a sport like hockey that derby emulates in the "penalty box" concept, there are still other skaters on the ice who are capable of scoring.

The USARS ruleset is pretty much the OSDA rules and if you know the history, the OSDA rules are actually based on an early version of the WFTDA rules with "old school" elements put in (such as the ability for the active scorer to alternate between the jammer and the pivot). I believe the history behind the 4 quarters comes from when WFTDA derby was 3 x 20 minute periods and I believe that OSDA made this 4 periods in order to accommodate alternating periods (men play one period, women play another period). Actually, the classic game was 8 alternating periods (OSDA banked track rules allow for this).

Over the years, the OSDA rules have not been refined as much as the WFTDA rules. This could be for several reasons. First, there are not as many OSDA leagues who can make their input on proposed changes to the rules. OSDA is also focused on the eventual return of professional roller derby. There is currently an OSDA Professional Division that is in formation that will be doing banked track. In order for roller derby to be marketable in the professional arena, the game must be simple, hard hitting, not very cerebral and most importantly, the scoring must be close to keep spectators/viewers interested.

When Desert Dolls Roller Derby was forming in Phoenix, I consulted them on their rule set. DDRD was founded by former Arizona Derby Dames skaters and this was right the time when AZDD made the move from flat to banked track. Interestingly enough, DDRD borrowed some of their rules, especially the penalty structure from the OSDA rules at the time. Now if you look at their last season:
http://derbydata.com/?divid=0014&opt=schedule&season=000000000007
.. you will see there's not one blowout.

Actually, even in OSDA, a blowout (superlopper) is very rare.

Should we point fingers at WFTDA? No.
Should WFTDA sue USARS? Why? I am sure that USARS looked at the WFTDA ruleset also.

I know if I was on the USARS committee that was responsible for determining the ruleset to propose to FIRS for international/olympic compeition and I was watching recent WFTDA bouts, I would steer clear from the WFTDA ruleset too. This current WFTDA game has little fan satisfaction and lacks overall marketability, mainly because many games are determined in the first 10 minutes of gameplay.

If we returned back to basics in this game, we would have a game much closer to the USARS test rules. I feel that over time, there will be more opportunities to comment on the game play and it was appropriate for USARS to take a few leagues that were smaller in scope as the test bed (more likely the teams will be evenly matched).

I look forward to the outcome.

Submitted by Billy Rae Siren on October 4, 2011 - 12:08pm

Where did you hear that OSDA has used WFTDA 3.0 as an example when writing their rules? I skated for OSDA for years and never heard anything of the sort. I always assumed Judy Sowinski and Skip Arnold had simply revised the rules they skated by during their professional era. I am sure every new association checks out others when writing their rules however.

"Over the years, the OSDA rules have not been refined as much as the WFTDA rules." I think this is simply because they work. The founders of OSDA (old schoolers themselves, which is often said derogatorily by many in the WFTDA community) had 30 or more years of experience in derby and knew what would work. Unfortunately, I just think WFTDA tried to move too far away from what worked and are now running into some snags.

I do like your example of how your league incorporated variations on rules from different association. I do not understand why this is so faux pas to be honest. I feel as that is what USARS has done here and think it needed to be done for roller derby to ever have a chance at consideration for the Olympics.

Submitted by Mercy Less on October 4, 2011 - 1:06pm

...but I was on the WFTDA Board of Directors when OSDA approached us and asked our permission to use sections of our ruleset in their new one (circa 2007, maybe?), with proper credit to WFTDA for the sections they used. If I remember right, the general response was that they knew how to use proper citations, and didn't need our permission. But I could be remembering that wrong. Maybe Ivanna S. Pankin remembers what the WFTDA decision was on that one?

Submitted by Billy Rae Siren on October 4, 2011 - 1:20pm

That's interesting. I never knew that. Thanks!

Submitted by Sweet Alyce on October 1, 2011 - 10:49pm

Those words say it all for me. It was a great day of beta testing! Poker and Rummy have lots of variations, and no one needs to feel threatened, in my opinion. It's a beta, it will evolve and it definitely did not suck!

Submitted by D Train on October 3, 2011 - 3:42pm

Can you be more specific? More penalties/fewer penalties? More strategy/less strategy? More points/fewer points?

It would be nice to hear more details and comments from people who have actually played under the ruleset. Hearing that it did not suck is awesome, but not that descriptive.

Submitted by l8rsk8r on October 2, 2011 - 2:21pm

The USARS rule set looks like they copied most of MADE and OSDA, with bits of WFTDA, and then added stupid stuff to it. For example, a two minute penalty for a skater illegally knocking another down or out of bounds? The idea is to keep skaters on the track, not off of it. Skaters off the track make the game boring. As well, fouling out for 3 majors is going to shave down rosters very quickly. I hope that's the first rule to change. I don't dig the transfer of scoring ability. Star passes may seem over the top, but how about an OSDA style whip. Just a simple "I'm now the active scorer" is confusing for fans and refs. A physical transfer is necessary. 4 quarters makes no sense in any version of roller derby rules.

My biggest issue with USARS currently is that they're in effect ignoring 8 years of growth of this sport and are saying "screw what's been done, we know how to do it right." That is why, after doing absolutely nothing but insuring skaters, they expected the WFTDA to endorse them just because they became the US governing body for roller derby. Frankly, USARS is just trying to cash in on the people who are disgruntled with WFTDA.

Submitted by Billy Rae Siren on October 4, 2011 - 12:12pm

My biggest issue with USARS currently is that they're in effect ignoring 8 years of growth of this sport and are saying "screw what's been done, we know how to do it right."

Isn't this what WFTDA has been doing to roller derby for the last 8 years? This sport has rules before WFTDA came along.

Submitted by Lippy Wrongstockings on October 4, 2011 - 3:14pm

"Isn't this what WFTDA has been doing to roller derby for the last 8 years? This sport has rules before WFTDA came along."

Right. So who was playing it? If WFTDA is so woefully out of it and killing roller derby, why are there hundreds of leagues apprenticing and hundreds more brand new leagues popping up with their main goal to become a WFTDA league? WFTDA is young, it's growing and learning. Everyone assumes that since some people have been complaining about some unpopular strategies for the past 4 or 5 months and WFTDA hasn't sent you a letter of apology that nothing will ever be done about it. Rule changes are due in May, they aren't going to change mid tournament season. When you hate something about Hockey, or Football or any other sport, do you honestly expect them to change it all to suit you? Roller derby has these bizarre expectations on that no other sport has placed upon it, to change the second a fan demands it.

I have no issue with other rule sets. I have zero desire to play under them. Do what makes you happy. Don't hate. Skate.

Submitted by miamoe2 on October 4, 2011 - 4:35pm

"Everyone assumes that since some people have been complaining about some unpopular strategies for the past 4 or 5 months "

not true. I have been hearing complaints about WFTDA rules since I started playing in '04. Mostly back then they were about being able to fall on the ground out of bounds and call off a jam, whoever breaks first is lead jammer, etc. I see alots changed.

Submitted by Billy Rae Siren on October 4, 2011 - 4:43pm

Please stop talking about roller derby like WFTDA invented it. Plenty of other associations go through seasons without argument about their rules. Not every league is vying for a spot in WFTDA. Roller derby was still around before WFTDA, and those leagues are still around today.

Submitted by Lippy Wrongstockings on October 4, 2011 - 4:58pm

Who said WFTDA invented roller derby? They are most widely played by rules by both member and non member leagues. I don't know why that equates to WFTDA thinks they invented roller derby. The way I see it, is if ANY other rule-set that comes out is fundamentally making the game better for the fans, and the skaters, and the derby community at large, it will naturally become the one played the most. All the WFTDA leagues that are apparently tired of WFTDA will leave and play these more desirable rules. I don't understand why all the griping has to be done. If you hate the WFTDA rules, don't skate them. This shouldn't be so hard.

Also, I said "I" don't have a problem with other rules, I don't presume to speak for WFTDA or anyone else but myself.

Submitted by Billy Rae Siren on October 4, 2011 - 8:13pm

I'm sorry. It's just frustrating to constantly hear people say that derby is in it's infancy. It's certainly not. These problems occurring with rules are centralized to the WFTDA rule set, not derby in general. I am not saying WFTDA doesn't have amazing skaters or great PR tactics, but it's frustrating to see that USARS has put out what a lot of us feel is a fair and equal bridge between all rule sets and it seems WFTDA skaters are simply disregarding it because it contains variations of OSDA and M.A.D.E. rules. Buster Armov started this comment thread with a very negative tone, sorry if my distaste for his ignorance carried over in my comment to you. Glad to hear you don't have a problem with other rule sets. I wish more people shared your opinion.

Submitted by Lippy Wrongstockings on October 5, 2011 - 12:14pm

"I'm sorry. It's just frustrating to constantly hear people say that derby is in it's infancy. "

FLAT TRACK roller derby is still in it's infancy. And WFTDA stands for Women's FLAT TRACK Derby Association.

I'm also in Canada, so USARS has no governance over my derby. ; )

Submitted by Billy Rae Siren on October 6, 2011 - 7:27pm

WFTDA is almost in junior high school at this point. They should know right from wrong by now.

Submitted by Rachel Rotten on October 6, 2011 - 8:13pm

Actually if you're putting an age on it, WFTDA is barely in 1st/2nd grade. (http://wftda.com/history)
In 2nd grade I was still falling out of trees after trying to jump for the same far away branch that I hadn't yet figured out how to climb over to.
By junior high i'd grown so much that I found a way to reach that branch without jumping and flailing. It just took some growth.

Submitted by Billy Rae Siren on October 4, 2011 - 4:46pm

If WFTDA really does not have a problem with other rule sets and lives my the words, "don't hate, skate," then why did they write an open letter to USA Roller Sports asking other associations to stand with them in rejecting this new set of rules? Why does someone from WFTDA keep deleting information about other associations on the roller derby Wiki page. It does seem like your association has issues with others.

Submitted by Poobah on October 5, 2011 - 12:22pm

I've heard people crow about Wikipedia editors deleting things before. They tend to display a serious misunderstanding of how Wikipedia works. Anyone who doesn't know and observe the rules and policies of Wikipedia will tend to find their Wikipedia edits reverted.

Information needs to be properly sourced from reliable sources (newspapers and news sites are better than league web sites, social networking and blogs are no good at all). It can't be directly copied word-for-word from a trademarked source (this one caused required various editors to remove the original OSDA page multiple times). Information needs to be presented in an objective and "encyclopedic" way. It can't read like ad copy or be promotional in nature.

Were someone actually maliciously editing articles to remove info on other organizations that was presented in the right way, the edits could be reverted and the consensus would most likely be to "keep."

FWIW, I've actually been one of the persons ADDING info on other organizations. The thing is, I learned how to do it properly so that my time wasn't wasted. Nor the time of those who'd have to fix the mess I left behind.

Submitted by Billy Rae Siren on October 6, 2011 - 1:42pm

The recent additions added and removed by the parties in question did cite viable references for the association they were adding only to be removed again and then mocked by the other party who referred to them as, "their little friend." This bullying is unwarranted and unnecessary. I makes me sick. This comment thread was started with the same attitude. If OSDA and M.A.D.E. have enough "notability" to be accused of influencing USA Roller Sports in changing the rules of roller derby, shouldn't that be enough to make malicious trolls of Wikipedia stop deleting mention of them in the page for Roller Derby (NOT WFTDA, ROLLER DERBY). There are rules about bias on Wikipedia, as I am sure you know. For the majority of associations in the US, "pass the star," "intentional penalties," "and "slow start" are not in their vocabulary or pertain in any way to their rules. How is this unbiased? And how was it determined that WFTDA is the primary governing body of all of roller derby? They don't govern us? "With well over 500 women’s leagues in 16 countries," I would say hands-down USARS should hold that title. What about men? We would like for our male skaters to be able to recruit without the stigma of our sport being completely owned and operated by females.

Submitted by Poobah on October 3, 2011 - 3:59am

The purpose of this rule set is to keep USARS member leagues from doing what USARS member leagues have been doing for ages. Leaving for greener pastures (WFTDA or their own liability insurance). USARS has for years made big money off of selling us insurance with a sizable markup, along with a quarterly magazine with articles here and there that different member leagues wrote about themselves... Aside from that and a couple of equipment/safety rules they insisted upon, they "governed" the sport like an absentee landlord.

WFTDA's rules came about because back in the ULC days everyone was on their own page with rules. Interleague play was a major hassle, because you generally had to play by the host league's rules. And even if the rules were written the same, sometimes they were enforced in radically different ways. Define "unnecessary roughness." Can you say "at the referee's discretion?" Some leagues chose not to go WFTDA's way, and others formed their own organizations to play by their own rules sets. Nothing wrong with that, but there's costs involved.

Playing by "oddball rules" tends to serve as a self-erected wall around your league. Unless you're in an area where a particular niche rule set is semi-popular, you tend to wind up skating a lot more intraleague derby. Until you scare up a second team's worth of skaters, it's often difficult to even scrimmage. Throw a dart at a map of the U.S. and there's pretty likely to be a league using WFTDA's rules within an hour or two's drive of where it lands. Which means experienced referees and skaters to point your new league in the right direction. That's tougher to get with other rule sets.

With USARS trying to leverage their "insurer of last resort" position into rules sets and tournaments (how the hell will they seed those?) that are aimed at keeping member leagues "locked in" there could be a few different outcomes. They could manage to convince a great number of existing member leagues to switch over. This would splinter the flat track derby community. Or they might manage to pull off and retain a smaller number. Those would likely find it increasingly difficult to book interleague games, share referees, etc.

Submitted by Poobah on October 3, 2011 - 4:27am

"But we can play BOTH rules!" This really only works if the two rules sets are fairly similar. WFTDA and WORD or MADE and OSDA, for example. I could pop up a list of results that pretty clearly demonstrate that leagues playing under a drastically different rule set will tend to get crushed even by a fairly weak opponent.

Rules provide the structures that strategies are built around. Throw out the rules completely and you tend to get a physical but non-strategic game. Change the rules drastically and the strategies change along with them. Trying to master multiple rule sets would generally tend to be an exercise in frustration.

Submitted by HelloLauren on October 3, 2011 - 6:27pm

I like playing other rulesets. I get my ass kicked, but hey I love derby, I love meeting new skaters and that's enough for me. Also as a non WFTDA league we had 8 interleague games this season, 3 being played under other rulesets, which we lost drastically, but got better each time and had fun every time. Mastery of more than one is possible, it would take a hell of a lot of work and a crazy bouting schedule, but it is possible. However, I think cross association play is vital to build community and break stigmas. WFTDA stated in the open letter they support other organizations growth, so I hope more of their subscribers follow suit.

Submitted by slamrox on October 3, 2011 - 2:10pm

I agree above. My team played a MADE team this weekend. Strategy is very different.
As a new skater, all I care about is that the refs keep the game from becoming a backyard brawl. Elbows to the face are not acceptable.

Submitted by HelloLauren on October 3, 2011 - 6:08pm

a lot of penalties were called for that bout and it was both teams first game. Accidents happen, even in top WFTDA teams. As long as the penalty is called you have to be satisfied or don't play a physical sport.

Submitted by Billy Rae Siren on October 4, 2011 - 12:17pm

I reffed this game and the girl who through that hit to the face was immediately sent to the penalty box. Your coach should simply check the box before yelling at refs. We tried to make it as fare as possible and offer advice since we knew your team had not played by M.A.D.E. rules before. I apologize if you did not see it as so. I thought your team held their own very well.

Submitted by Billy Rae Siren on October 4, 2011 - 12:21pm

Threw rather...

Submitted by Slaughter Lily on October 4, 2011 - 5:14pm

We thought we did really well, also, thank you for noticing! :) And our coach is quite proud of us, also, though he may have been worked up at the time.

We appreciate you all making the trip and taking the time to help us put on our first bout! I'm sure both teams learned a lot.

Submitted by Billy Rae Siren on October 4, 2011 - 8:01pm

No problem! Thanks to you ladies for putting on an awesome show!

Submitted by HelloLauren on October 3, 2011 - 6:01pm

These rules are not old school or made. They are a mix of all rulesets. Lead jammer can not be attained if you commit a penalty on your first pass jsut like wftda... pivots can not break if their jammers are sent to the box before any jammer breaks... allowing for power jams just like wftda... jam times are 2 minutes, just like wftda... blocking zones are even stricter than wftda. It also has similarities to WORD... lead changes. People are just reading them through the negative lens that possesses so many in the derby world. It's so disheartening. The usars rules provide and equalized playing field for skaters experienced in all walks of derby to try their hand.

Submitted by HelloLauren on October 3, 2011 - 6:53pm

the penalties are also totally WFTDA friendly, and I guarantee if MADE or OSDA skaters tried these rules they'd have to adjust to blocking zones, just like WFTDA skaters might have to adjust to pivots breaking more. One of OSDA key blocks would be totally illegal as this says your arm must always be parallel to your torso when blocking.

Submitted by Billy Rae Siren on October 4, 2011 - 12:26pm

It's a good mix of all worlds. Don't knock it till you try it!

Submitted by LizaPulveriza on October 10, 2011 - 11:33am

I wonder how much overlapping of USARS and WFTDA would benefit roller derby? In having their insurance (many of us do), USARS will pop you on their mailing list, you get their magazine about all the other roller sports, and you get to see what other leagues are posting out there (like this): http://usarollersports.org/events/tag/1157. Should leagues consider combining efforts with USARS and WFTDA for a more thorough approach to getting their message/their fan base etc. yadda yadda among the masses? Imagine how much more sponsorship advertising you increase if you consider the USARS message in addition to the current WFTDA audience…etc. I wonder if there are any leagues out there who are having successes doing this now.

Submitted by marqueedesquad on November 22, 2011 - 12:02am

"Who said WFTDA invented roller derby?"

I'll say it. I'll say that WFTDA, by extension of many incarnations of its early self and much heart and soul, created flat track derby...because the skaters who created flat track derby can be granted credit for creating the sport that is the ONLY reason we're all talking about this right now and for further creating WFTDA by consolidating and unifying the rules. Period.

Submitted by Paige Bleed on November 22, 2011 - 2:49pm

This new rules set gives you a break every 15 minutes! Not to mention any time you'd go to the box, which is looking like that would be quite often considering you get sent 1 minute for a minor and 2 minutes for a major. Plus you can't skate clockwise at any time... so if you ever end up to far ahead you just have to sit and wait for your teammates to catch up. Lastly, I know we all aim to play clean (without penalties) but I'm sorry most players I've every met would foul out of the game on these rules!

Submitted by HooahGirl on November 23, 2011 - 1:00pm

I hate to say it - but I agree - waaaay too many breaks in the 4 quarter dealio. I don't know if it was the wine, the popcorn, my comfy ass couch - but dam, after all the breaks taken during the final, reviews, challenges - I was fighting the Zzzz monster AND LOSING! I thought official reviews in Flat Track derby were long, but dang!

Submitted by joanierollmoan on December 7, 2011 - 8:04pm

While it is a steep hill to climb to even become a full member of WFTDA these days, and true that many if not most leagues that exist today are not likely to make it to the "Big 5," regional tourneys are not the only reason to be a member of WFTDA, or even play by WFTDA rules. As a skater who was in a WFTDA league who is now in a league who is hoping to become WFTDA, the difference is startling! The access to resources, information, mentorship and ability to be part of the discussions, decisions and direction of our sport is not something anyone in a WFTDA member league should take lightly. I have nothing against MADE etc and if they want to play by their own rules I say go for it. Unlike USARS which seems to be poised to force its members to change to rules they pulled out of the air (not voted in by its member leagues). If it wasn't for insurance, how many leagues would choose to be USARS? There is a reason I have been warned by skaters in every other discipline that they "govern" that derby needs to WATCH OUT for USARS.