I don't know any person on Oly. I don't know any person on AZRD. I can't speak with any knowledge as to feelings, conversations, or internal actions by any of the participants. I only know what has been posted by the skaters themselves in regards to these actions, and the actions that have been made public. (Before I enter into anything, I find it is good to start off by saying "I know nothing.")
So on with the thoughts:
I agree entirely that people have responded viscerally to this situation. A fair part of the derby world went crazy. If they created a safe pitchfork to use while on roller skates, I'm sure they would have been bought by the dozens.
Some people have guessed that it is due to Oly's past success. That could very well be true. Some have surmised it is due to the way in which they have managed their rosters previously. Also, could be very possible.
My albeit small, 3,000+ miles away from the actual issue, opinion is this:
Ohana means family, and family means no one gets left behind.
Yes. I did. Yes. I just quoted Disney's Lilo & Stitch.
As we are wont to do, people react to situations by mentally putting themselves in that position. If you see a friend drinking a concoction of one part milk, one part pickle juice, and three parts slurpie, we scrunch our faces up because we can imagine how it would taste if we drank it. (By the way: its awful.)
I imagine many thought how they'd react if it were their team this was happening to. Not, "Hey, we got three awesome new skaters!" But, "Hey, three skaters I've lived and died next to on the track for this past whole season are getting tossed off our team instead of being next to me at regionals."
Winning is awesome. I speak of this having played sports on some truly awful teams, and when you win one, its damn special. But I think most want to win not because of the influx of incredible talent, but with those they have toiled with all season to get there. And if you lose, you lose with the same skaters who you have laughed, cried, fought, and bled with. The sports stories we pull for are the ones who are all about team. And when that is changed at the 11th hour, we feel hurt.
Sure, we want roller derby to be professional. We want to see competition at the highest level. We want to roll out of bed and catch the highlights on SportsCenter of last night's game. But I feel most still believe in an "us against the world" mentality, and that is both on the micro (our own teams) and macro (our own sport) scale. And to that end, we want to protect our team from the desire to win by roster-turnover, and not through building up the skaters we have this year.
Those are just my thoughts. Well, that and don't take your angst out on refs. Angst is bad.
But you have remember 2 things.. 1. The modern resurgence of Derby was circa 2003-2004. So my comment about lucky to get a few laps in a 2 minute jam is from one of the founders who related such to either Poobah or Jerry. I forget which of the two of them posted it. but it was a good 4 years and quite a bit of experience later 2. 2008 was just at the beginning of "stopped/slow pack" strategy. I too remember 15 point power jams being a specialty not a every jam experience. Now we have two scenarios, the 'No Pack' (once again, we haven't used Split Pack for several rules sets), and the 'Stopped Pack' The No pack allows Jammers to skate through unscathed and untouchable for a quick 4-5pt pass, and the 'Stopped/Stalled Pack' Which still allows for a bit of defense however allows for faster lap approaches towards the pack because the pack is no longer skating forward away from the jammer.
Name me any other sport where a team can score 30-39 points in a single 2 minute time frame?
I'm in agreement that the modern game is less about physicality, its about who can control the pack and stop it. Furthermore I think its crap and I hope that the WFTDA does something to change it. I've offered up some options above that would also lessen the impact of outrageous power jams, stopped packs/no packs, and hopefully lessen the amount of boring outrageous score variances. If a bout goes over a 100point difference in points, I stop watching.
but I was watching former speed skaters tear up the track in 2008 and be lucky to get 15 points in power jams because the pack was moving and offensive blockers were blocking and not standing. The single-jam record was 25 for a long time and there were a ton of athletes in the game back then. A ton of athletes that are still in the game. Trying to write off that period as a bunch of crappy skaters that were too slow to get more than a couple laps in 2 minutes is a flat out lie or plainly naive. Sorry if that offends you but it's true.
Has the athleticism and skill improved in roller derby? Absolutely. But, it hasn't changed at nearly the same rate as strategies have changed. THAT'S the difference. The strategies are different. Teams have figured out the fastest way to score points (and I don't blame them for that because that's what they should be doing). That's created a game that isn't about physicality. It isn't about sound blocking. It isn't about clean skating. It's about splitting the pack as quickly as possible. I don't think things need to change because it's boring or it causes point swings, there are many things in the game that do that that shouldn't be changed. I think there needs to be a change because these new strategies are the opposite of what roller derby is supposed to be about. Roller derby is supposed to be a physical game. It's supposed to be a fast game. It's supposed to be an interesting game. It's none of those things anymore and it has nothing to do with whether or not teams are scoring 15 or 30 points in a power jam. It just doesn't. It's about so much more.
I'm coming up with options that fix an obvious issue. Back when Flat Track Derby first started, skaters were lucky to get a couple of laps in a jam, hence the 2 minute jams. Now, faster more agile and more physical skaters can get 39 points in a single power jam! Even if the pack isn't split, but just held at a standstill! Stopped pack/slow pack doesn't necessarily mean 'no pack'. (FWIW there is no such thing as a split pack anymore. Its Pack/No Pack)
Shorter Jam times still offer power jams, fixing power jams so that the ability to jump up 20-30 points in a single 2 minute run goes away will affect the game, lower the scores to more reasonable levels, increase interest for the fans, and decrease blow outs.
People are trying to fix a problem that doesn't exist. Power jams are not the problem. Power jams were never a problem until split packing became popular. What they were, were the most exciting jams of the entire game. What they allowed was for dramatic comebacks in the final minutes. Reducing them doesn't solve anything because it isn't the problem.
Fix the problem of pack splitting by not letting jammers score when there isn't a pack. It's so simple, it's stupid. If you take away the ENTIRE reason to split a pack in the first place, teams will have no reason to ever split the pack again.
What about all the other jams where he didn't get through with some crazy spinny move? You can make anything look good if you edit out all the bad stuff and set it to fast paced music.
Perhaps some 'test' fixes are on order? Of course even if they are found to be great the moment a 'loophole strategy' is discovered we're putting on more bandaids.
I'm just throwing stuff out there as a brainstorm, not meant to debate/argue just think of it.
Lowering the Jam times to 1min per Jam (Maybe 1.5 Minutes). Less Jam time each Jam less time to score. Couple that with lowered Penalty Box time, and you have more time on the track.
Yes, that means penalties don't carry as much weight, but you allow for more defense by the pack, and more offense by the jammers.
Penalty Box Time 30 Second penalties per infraction. More time on the track more action.
or
Jammers released from Penalty on first score of Powerjam/Entry into the pack.
I am a opponent of Stopped Derby. Its like taking a knee in football, valid.. but not much skill.
and is on the other side of the track..... the choices are limited.
If there is no action within 30 feet of my lens, then there is no action to take photos of. If there are skaters just standing around within 30 feet of my lens, then that is what I can take photos of. Other photographers just stop taking photos altogether in these circumstances. Like Sharkey in that photo.
At last year's Westerns when no one skated, including the jammers, I watched the jam clock click down from 2:00 to 0:00. That was exciting.
I don't know any person on Oly. I don't know any person on AZRD. I can't speak with any knowledge as to feelings, conversations, or internal actions by any of the participants. I only know what has been posted by the skaters themselves in regards to these actions, and the actions that have been made public. (Before I enter into anything, I find it is good to start off by saying "I know nothing.")
So on with the thoughts:
I agree entirely that people have responded viscerally to this situation. A fair part of the derby world went crazy. If they created a safe pitchfork to use while on roller skates, I'm sure they would have been bought by the dozens.
Some people have guessed that it is due to Oly's past success. That could very well be true. Some have surmised it is due to the way in which they have managed their rosters previously. Also, could be very possible.
My albeit small, 3,000+ miles away from the actual issue, opinion is this:
Ohana means family, and family means no one gets left behind.
Yes. I did. Yes. I just quoted Disney's Lilo & Stitch.
As we are wont to do, people react to situations by mentally putting themselves in that position. If you see a friend drinking a concoction of one part milk, one part pickle juice, and three parts slurpie, we scrunch our faces up because we can imagine how it would taste if we drank it. (By the way: its awful.)
I imagine many thought how they'd react if it were their team this was happening to. Not, "Hey, we got three awesome new skaters!" But, "Hey, three skaters I've lived and died next to on the track for this past whole season are getting tossed off our team instead of being next to me at regionals."
Winning is awesome. I speak of this having played sports on some truly awful teams, and when you win one, its damn special. But I think most want to win not because of the influx of incredible talent, but with those they have toiled with all season to get there. And if you lose, you lose with the same skaters who you have laughed, cried, fought, and bled with. The sports stories we pull for are the ones who are all about team. And when that is changed at the 11th hour, we feel hurt.
Sure, we want roller derby to be professional. We want to see competition at the highest level. We want to roll out of bed and catch the highlights on SportsCenter of last night's game. But I feel most still believe in an "us against the world" mentality, and that is both on the micro (our own teams) and macro (our own sport) scale. And to that end, we want to protect our team from the desire to win by roster-turnover, and not through building up the skaters we have this year.
Those are just my thoughts. Well, that and don't take your angst out on refs. Angst is bad.
All the best-
Hale Yeah
But you have remember 2 things.. 1. The modern resurgence of Derby was circa 2003-2004. So my comment about lucky to get a few laps in a 2 minute jam is from one of the founders who related such to either Poobah or Jerry. I forget which of the two of them posted it. but it was a good 4 years and quite a bit of experience later 2. 2008 was just at the beginning of "stopped/slow pack" strategy. I too remember 15 point power jams being a specialty not a every jam experience. Now we have two scenarios, the 'No Pack' (once again, we haven't used Split Pack for several rules sets), and the 'Stopped Pack' The No pack allows Jammers to skate through unscathed and untouchable for a quick 4-5pt pass, and the 'Stopped/Stalled Pack' Which still allows for a bit of defense however allows for faster lap approaches towards the pack because the pack is no longer skating forward away from the jammer.
Name me any other sport where a team can score 30-39 points in a single 2 minute time frame?
I'm in agreement that the modern game is less about physicality, its about who can control the pack and stop it. Furthermore I think its crap and I hope that the WFTDA does something to change it. I've offered up some options above that would also lessen the impact of outrageous power jams, stopped packs/no packs, and hopefully lessen the amount of boring outrageous score variances. If a bout goes over a 100point difference in points, I stop watching.
but I was watching former speed skaters tear up the track in 2008 and be lucky to get 15 points in power jams because the pack was moving and offensive blockers were blocking and not standing. The single-jam record was 25 for a long time and there were a ton of athletes in the game back then. A ton of athletes that are still in the game. Trying to write off that period as a bunch of crappy skaters that were too slow to get more than a couple laps in 2 minutes is a flat out lie or plainly naive. Sorry if that offends you but it's true.
Has the athleticism and skill improved in roller derby? Absolutely. But, it hasn't changed at nearly the same rate as strategies have changed. THAT'S the difference. The strategies are different. Teams have figured out the fastest way to score points (and I don't blame them for that because that's what they should be doing). That's created a game that isn't about physicality. It isn't about sound blocking. It isn't about clean skating. It's about splitting the pack as quickly as possible. I don't think things need to change because it's boring or it causes point swings, there are many things in the game that do that that shouldn't be changed. I think there needs to be a change because these new strategies are the opposite of what roller derby is supposed to be about. Roller derby is supposed to be a physical game. It's supposed to be a fast game. It's supposed to be an interesting game. It's none of those things anymore and it has nothing to do with whether or not teams are scoring 15 or 30 points in a power jam. It just doesn't. It's about so much more.
I'm coming up with options that fix an obvious issue. Back when Flat Track Derby first started, skaters were lucky to get a couple of laps in a jam, hence the 2 minute jams. Now, faster more agile and more physical skaters can get 39 points in a single power jam! Even if the pack isn't split, but just held at a standstill! Stopped pack/slow pack doesn't necessarily mean 'no pack'. (FWIW there is no such thing as a split pack anymore. Its Pack/No Pack)
Shorter Jam times still offer power jams, fixing power jams so that the ability to jump up 20-30 points in a single 2 minute run goes away will affect the game, lower the scores to more reasonable levels, increase interest for the fans, and decrease blow outs.
I may have to stop taking these photos of passive offense.
The problem isn't taking these photos. There's nothing particularly difficult with pressing the shutter button of the camera.
It's the editing of these photos that are so soul killing.
And, I may just have to stop doing it.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/nocklebeast/8061539729/in/set-7215763170901...
Frank T Flamingo loves to be part of the South Central! Tampa loves adding to the better boutfits!
Wooo Pinky your'e awesome!
by cropping the blockers that are just standing there out of the photo.
should actually do something (the blockers playing offense are not doing anything).
That video is of clips and photos of the white blockers standing around as they watch their jammer go by. And it set to music.
As far as that soccer goalkeeper goes? She isn't playing offense.
Thank you so much for posting these! I love derbylife!!!!
People are trying to fix a problem that doesn't exist. Power jams are not the problem. Power jams were never a problem until split packing became popular. What they were, were the most exciting jams of the entire game. What they allowed was for dramatic comebacks in the final minutes. Reducing them doesn't solve anything because it isn't the problem.
Fix the problem of pack splitting by not letting jammers score when there isn't a pack. It's so simple, it's stupid. If you take away the ENTIRE reason to split a pack in the first place, teams will have no reason to ever split the pack again.
What about all the other jams where he didn't get through with some crazy spinny move? You can make anything look good if you edit out all the bad stuff and set it to fast paced music.
Perhaps some 'test' fixes are on order? Of course even if they are found to be great the moment a 'loophole strategy' is discovered we're putting on more bandaids.
I'm just throwing stuff out there as a brainstorm, not meant to debate/argue just think of it.
Lowering the Jam times to 1min per Jam (Maybe 1.5 Minutes). Less Jam time each Jam less time to score. Couple that with lowered Penalty Box time, and you have more time on the track.
Yes, that means penalties don't carry as much weight, but you allow for more defense by the pack, and more offense by the jammers.
Penalty Box Time 30 Second penalties per infraction. More time on the track more action.
or
Jammers released from Penalty on first score of Powerjam/Entry into the pack.
I am a opponent of Stopped Derby. Its like taking a knee in football, valid.. but not much skill.
Most of the actions in this clip are also during passive offensive powerjams. Nothing worth looking at?
http://youtu.be/rXMJvA8VhC0
and is on the other side of the track..... the choices are limited.
If there is no action within 30 feet of my lens, then there is no action to take photos of. If there are skaters just standing around within 30 feet of my lens, then that is what I can take photos of. Other photographers just stop taking photos altogether in these circumstances. Like Sharkey in that photo.
At last year's Westerns when no one skated, including the jammers, I watched the jam clock click down from 2:00 to 0:00. That was exciting.
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